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Glowforge CEO, Wharton Research Fellow, Robot Turtles creator, Proud Dad

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Startup dudes: Cut the sexist crap

Last week I was speaking on what would have otherwise been a terrific panel.  It was Frank Artale from Ignition, Tom Duterme from Groupon M&A, Andy Sack from Lighter Capital & Founder’s Co-op, and me talking about funding & exiting.  The only thing that spoiled it was yet another guy in the tech scene putting forth yet another objectifying/patronizing treatment of someone with two X chromosomes.

In this case, the recipient of the bogus intro was the panel moderator, Rebecca Lovell. Just in case anyone out there in startupland has not  met Rebecca, she’s one of the best-connected people in the Seattle tech scene, with a resume that includes leadership roles at the Alliance of Angels, NWEN, and now Geekwire.  These would all be appropriate topics to use when introducing someone, man or woman. Here’s what the man introducing Rebecca chose to say instead (you can listen to the full audio of the introduction for context):

Rebecca’s one of the smartest ladies I know, and I thought that she was a perfect pick for the role of moderator.  When we selected Rebecca and she said yes, she was a sexy single woman. And since that time, she’s become a sexy married woman, and so I wanted her lucky new spouse to stand up.  So we’ve got not only a very talented, but a happy moderator.

Come on, people.  Really?

This has been bugging me for a while.  I was coaching one team for Techstars Demo Day, and they had a photo of scantily clad women (that had nothing to do with their pitch) that I convinced them to strike.  Two months ago, a company I was coaching showed up for a meeting with me at Google and made a comment about the receptionist’s appearance.  Within earshot of her.

Everyone has a reason.  One person was older.  One person was from another country.  It just doesn’t matter.  If we keep this bullshit up, we’re going to crap all over another generation of women tech entrepreneurs.  And it’s just a rotten thing to do. Think before you open your mouth.

And if you see someone doing this, call them on it. I didn’t… that was my nervous laughter in the background of the recording.

Better late then never.

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Comments

260 responses to “Startup dudes: Cut the sexist crap”

  1. This is the aim of one strand of marxism which has become multiculturalism. Instead of treating people as people, you emphasise their “identities” and thereby drive a wedge between them

    Hoover Avatar
    Hoover

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  2. I see an interesting irony in your comment in that you say “every mother knows this”.  You seem to be suggesting that this man (who I know) needs to be disciplined in a maternal way which is a rather sexist suggestion to make.  
    I have been a single father for much of the last 9 years and have found myself on many occasions having to work against prejudice when interacting with teachers, parents, doctors, etc.  It is not uncommon for people to tell me things like “have your wife call to schedule X”, or when learning that I was divorced with kids they ask things like “do your kids live nearby?”  It doesn’t matter that my kids were living with me 6 days a week, I was presumed to be a disengaged or incompetent parent simply because I am a man.And as a father who knows, there are many different legitimate schools of thought on how to raise children and modify behavior.  And I can say with confidence from doing my parenting homework as well as having years of experience that calling out bad behavior on the spot is not always the right approach.  Corrections after the fact are often better because they tend not to be as emotional due to embarrassment or power dynamics.  I don’t always feel the need to set people straight “on the spot” when they make demeaning assumptions about me.  I often prefer to educate them simply by demonstrating competence and composure. In addition I am Rebecca’s husband, and I was there when she was introduced.  Although probably inappropriate for the setting the introductory remarks were entirely meant as a compliment.  Rebecca is a phenomenal person and I am blessed to be married to her.  If you know her you know that in addition to being smart, savvy, confident and beautiful she is also gorgeous to look at.  To purposely deny that obvious quality in the name of political correctness is as wrong as wearing sexist blinders that make all of her other qualities invisible simply because she is indeed sexy.

    Steve Harris Avatar
    Steve Harris

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  3. Funny thing is that this has a very little to do with women, it’s much more about male geeks finally found themselves in the position of power. Not treated anymore as bearded freaks, geeks are now superstars and ninjas, and that makes some people exercise their newly founded machismo… not cool

    Ivan Dilber Avatar
    Ivan Dilber

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  4. I didn’t put any words in his mouth at any point of any comment. I’m not ‘trying to gain support’ or debate the topic by stating an opinion on his comment. I didn’t say he undermined another group either.

    Guest Avatar
    Guest

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  5. Try this experiment. Read the following paragraph.

    Jack is one of the smartest guys I know, and I thought that he was a perfect pick for the role of moderator.  When we selected Jack and he said yes, he was a sexy single man. And since that time, he’s become a sexy married man, and so I wanted his lucky new spouse to stand up.  So we’ve got not only a very talented, but a happy moderator.

    Is that sexist? No, not one bit, and it wasn’t sexist before I switched Rebecca’s name with Jack. Since when is saying a woman is attractive sexist?

    Sexism exists and it’s bad, but this entire post and it’s comments stink of a “yes man” attitude, or should I say “yes woman”? I’d have to say you were digging deep here to find something you can post on to get some traffic from this currently hot topic in the tech community.

    James Avatar
    James

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  6. man the fuck up you little butthurt whiny child

    Yac Avatar
    Yac

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  7. Oh, I see, you’re ironically being sexist in exactly the way Kristen Taylor complained about to draw attention to how terrible it is. Nicely done, sir.

    Laurence Avatar
    Laurence

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  8.  Inferring what gender if any someone is identifying as is on a whole
    other level and much more normal and expected in a social situation than sampling their chromosomes.

    In normal conversation you are expected to be able to pick up on the correct pronouns to refer to someone, and you’ll certainly be corrected if you get them wrong, but discussing someone’s chromosomes is usually not appropriate.

    Laurence Avatar
    Laurence

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  9.  you’re supposed to respect someone’s gender rather than airing your assumptions about their sex

    Guest Avatar
    Guest

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  10.  As a fellow user of hacker news I have to agree with you. :)

    Laurence Avatar
    Laurence

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  11.  Get out. Tacitly reaffirming sexism by not speaking out against it is immediately hurtful and dangerous.

    Laurence Avatar
    Laurence

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  12. I am not sure correcting someone privately is the best thing to do. Everybody else will go home that night thinking “ha ha, isn’t sexism great”.

    Laurence Avatar
    Laurence

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  13.  That’s great. Enjoy not being a woman and consequently not being subject to sexism.

    Laurence Avatar
    Laurence

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  14. By “would be easier for everybody”, I assume you mean “would be easier for sexist dudes”?

    Laurence Avatar
    Laurence

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  15.  You can’t replicate the effect of sexism if you switch out the victim for a dude because then it’s not the same oppressed group anymore, yo. Sexism is a systemic and cultural thing.

    Laurence Avatar
    Laurence

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  16.  I see what you did there, you cleverly switched out the victim of sexual discrimination for someone from the half of the population that is profiting from it. I almost wouldn’t have noticed!

    Laurence Avatar
    Laurence

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  17. Stop downplaying sexual discrimination.

    Whether the victim of oppression finds themself in a position to speak out about it is a terrible benchmark.

    Laurence Avatar
    Laurence

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  18. Hey, fuck you for trying to make ~tech~ the bastion of chauvinism. Some of us are not fucking assholes and we get to make a living here too.

    Laurence Avatar
    Laurence

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  19. I agree but in today’s world…i’m also glad to see it.  If you think about it..we’re literally having a conversation where we condemn heterosexual activity.  …and it’s something that’s disappearing.  There’s a time and a place but it IS natural and normal for men to get a little stupid and flirt with women ALL THE TIME.

    Jamal Burgess Avatar
    Jamal Burgess

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  20. Not in a professional environment

    Gotham Gal Avatar
    Gotham Gal

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  21. It’s not strictly “sexist”, but it is inappropriate, and completely detracts from the professional characteristics of the person in question. I don’t see a problem with complimenting someone on how they look, but definitely not in that kind of context.

    Duncan MacDonald Avatar
    Duncan MacDonald

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  22. Calling someone “sexy” isn’t sexism. 

    Duncan MacDonald Avatar
    Duncan MacDonald

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  23. Laurence, you really need to look up the definition of sexism. This isn’t it. This is just an inappropriate context to make a comment about someone’s appearance.

    Duncan MacDonald Avatar
    Duncan MacDonald

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  24. I disgaree.
    P.S. Neat. I didn’t know a person could turn into ‘Guest’ after posting ..

    Matthew A. Myers Avatar
    Matthew A. Myers

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  25. Thanks. I think this must be why I love yoga so much: oneness, connected, intimacy with others is the focus – not differences.

    Matthew A. Myers Avatar
    Matthew A. Myers

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  26. Yay go Gotham Gal! I agree that most people aren’t paying attention to their behaviour when acting in that way (or other ways). It just takes some disruption to snap them back to reality usually though. Many people aren’t comfortable enough to confront people (the word confront makes people tense up, even though it’s a neutral word), though I hope as we evolve as a society that confrontation becomes a part of a healthy fluid world for all.

    Matthew A. Myers Avatar
    Matthew A. Myers

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  27. Don’t be ignorant. Just cause I’m a man doesn’t mean I’ve never been subjected to sexism. Just like because I’m white doesn’t mean I haven’t been the target of racism or bigotry. The world is a messed up place and this shit happens. How you handle it is all that matters.

    Ralph Miller Avatar
    Ralph Miller

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  28. It certainly is when that quality is being prioritized in women over any other qualities they might have.

    How was her sexiness related to moderating a panel?  Would a man in her place have been considered a better moderator if he was sexy than if he was unsexy?  Double standards and constant, inescapable objectification of people heterosexual men find attractive is absolutely sexist.

    I recommend bell hook’s Feminism For Everyone for a more complete discussion.  And I recommend you do your homework before attempting to make authoritative statements.

    Avatar
    Anonymous

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  29. Confrontation can be a positive thing. It’s all in the delivery

    Gotham Gal Avatar
    Gotham Gal

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  30. If you’d read my other comment you’d have seen that I completely agree that within the context it was made, it was entirely inappropriate. Do your own homework.

    Duncan MacDonald Avatar
    Duncan MacDonald

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  31. I believe the commentor is referring to the fact you are derailing in an attempt to give people a pass to act like sexist jerks.  But I wouldn’t want to be seen as protecting them!

    We have every right to complain about behavior even if it wasn’t targeted at us.  It made people, not just one person but at least three people so far in this thread alone, uncomfortable.  Why do you think those people’s feelings are less important than the feelings of the man who was acting in a possibly-unintentionally sexist manner?  If it was actually unintentional his response should be to feel guilty and apologize because he made other people uncomfortable and contributed to a systematically unwelcoming environment.  Now that he has been made aware, he can choose not to do it next time!  He doesn’t end up feeling guilty again, no one else ends up feeling uncomfortable: the world is a better place for everyone.

    What possible downside are you trying to protect against?  Not being allowed to make other people uncomfortable without someone saying something?

    Avatar
    Anonymous

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  32. I never said or inferred your feelings are somehow ‘less important’. Nor was anything I said meant to “derail in an attempt to give people a pass.” But to be honest, I’m completely against dragging someone through the mud with a post like this. I think some of the comments are just as insensitive as anything that was said at the event. How is that making the world a better place?

    That being said, I feel intention is EVERYTHING. Just because you’re uncomfortable or perceive something as being one way doesn’t make it so. That’s not protecting against anything except people’s false sense of reality, which is often based on their perception of events.

    Your comment also assumes that this guy doesn’t already feel bad about what he did. How do you know that? Did you ask him? Has he commented here? Does he even know this post is here? You see what I mean about perception and assumptions? I’m of the opinion that a frank discussion with this man after the fact could have accomplished something ten times more powerful than anything that’s been accomplished here.

    Ralph Miller Avatar
    Ralph Miller

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  33. Me too. Yet our differences are what allow us to experience that connection, so while they shouldn’t be the focus, recognition of them is a practice that deepens awareness.

    Ralph Miller Avatar
    Ralph Miller

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  34. Thank you for making people aware that this is not OK. Unfortunately, TV shows like “How I met your Mother”, etc. make this type of talk acceptable. Except in main stream business, these types of lines will not get a laugh from the women. 
    These thoughts the man has about Rebecca are quite allowed, but keep them INSIDE the brain. The introducer obviously thought he was on one of the TV Shows. Personal comments are not smart to use in reality.
    With great female entrepreneurs like Arianna Huffington, careless talk will mean lost deal opportunities.

    Jacoline Loewen Avatar
    Jacoline Loewen

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  35. I applied for YC & Techstars (few rounds ago) and I couldn’t help but wonder how my my application was received.  I’m a young, black female and while I acknowledge my project may just not have been “good” enough, when I saw the demographics of people, backgrounds, and projects chosen in those rounds, I had to wonder why I’d wasted my time.

    Geekly Avatar
    Geekly

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  36. As a woman entrepreneur, the women grouping is not a positive in my experience. It is about the business. Differences are fine for marketing and as Ralph says, connection, but I see it used as an excuse by many women. They do not look at their behaviours – how many hours dedicated, getting up at 4am, etc.

    Jacoline Loewen Avatar
    Jacoline Loewen

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  37. Intention isn’t everything: otherwise only bad people would be sexist.  Whether or not a driver intends to hit me with their car, it’s still going to hurt.

    All intention changes is whether or not the behavior will stop after we point it out.  If we don’t point it out, it will never change for either group.  After we point it out, it can change the behavior of this actor and anyone else who was simply unaware that this sort of thing would bother people (which is why it is important to discuss these incidents publicly.)  Anyone who still does these things after everyone in the community is aware of the effect they have on the people around them has either forgotten, in which case they should be grateful for the reminder and realize the value of reminding everyone, or they did intend it, in which case the public critique is for everyone else.

    Avatar
    Anonymous

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  38. Of course but keep it in your brain because women do joke about all the idiots looking at them in less than a professional manner. It then impacts on what level of business they will do. 
    Being an older woman, I observe male behavor with young women and believe me, it makes a huge difference who I will send a deal and who gets cut. I just had one fund manager tell my female client, owner of a $100M company, that she is gorgeous. Whaaaat…? He did not get the deal. This guy is a Dad and good husband too. One word – idiot. TV shows do not show the female side of this story line. 

    Jacoline Loewen Avatar
    Jacoline Loewen

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  39. I came to this blog post because someone tweeted the link and as a woman in tech who speaks at conferences its a subject that’s interests me. During the 15 odd years I’ve been in the industry I’ve seen little improvement how ever in the last couple of years I have noticed that misogynist behaviour is being picked up on. This is a good blog post.

    However…

    The two X chromosomes thing did leap out at me. I don’t have two X chromosomes. Usually that piece of information is no body’s business.  Its part of a history from many many years ago. I understand what the blogger was trying to say however you have to be careful when you use such phrases.

    Cyberspice Avatar
    Cyberspice

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  40. @James

    But they didn’t introduce any of the men in that way, did they? 
    Here’s an experiment: show me a single business panel where a male moderator or male panelist is introduced in such a way that his actual accomplishments are not mentioned but instead his “sexiness” and marital status are the qualifications used to explain why he is part of the event. Seriously. Show me one time that has happened.

    That’s why it’s sexist. In a theoretical perfect world with no sexism I would agree with you. An individual instance of a person (man or woman) being credited for their sexiness rather than their actual accomplishments would just be an example of one person being kind of rude. But in the ACTUAL world, we’ve got lots of panels and lots of examples where men are introduced and respected for their accomplishments and women’s accomplishments are ignored and instead we remark on their physical appearance. You can’t just wave that away with a flawed “experiment.”

    Cheever Avatar
    Cheever

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  41. If men in the business actually were introduced like that on a regular basis, the behavior wouldn’t be sexist (just kind of baffling).  But they’re not; for the most part, only women get this kind of thing.

    Matt McIrvin Avatar
    Matt McIrvin

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  42. Hi there, SEO Rapper. Woman in question (Rebecca) here. I’m sensing a tone here that actually does make me uncomfortable– that I’ve manipulated my appearance into positions of power.  Having asserted that I’m not easily offended, I’m going to be “bold enough to correct” such an implication.  I’d like to also assert that I should not have to downplay my femininity to avoid the patronizing suggestion you made above (whether you intended it or not).  There is no reason that my appearance should be incongruous with being tech savvy or a professional powerhouse.  And the implication that the former trumped the latter in terms of my career is troubling.  Turns out I’m really good at my job, and I love it.

    It was easy for me to call out a Startup Weekend presentation that described stay-at-home moms as not working, marginalized stay-at-home dads, and suggested perpetuating wage discrimination.  It was easy for me to call out the impropriety of 200 re-tweets of a photoshopped photo of me at a conference 20 minutes ahead of my scheduled talk.  I certainly wish I didn’t have to, but I will continue to do so.

    And I’m glad Dan felt compelled to bring this latest of many examples to the surface, because this is not my issue, it’s not a women’s issue, it’s a social issue.

    Avatar
    Anonymous

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  43. Hi there, SEO Rapper. Woman in question (Rebecca) here. I’m sensing a tone here that actually does make me uncomfortable– that I’ve manipulated my appearance into positions of power.  Having asserted that I’m not easily offended, I’m going to be “bold enough to correct” such an implication.  I’d like to also assert that I should not have to downplay my femininity to avoid the patronizing suggestion you made above (whether you intended it or not).  There is no reason that my appearance should be incongruous with being tech savvy or a professional powerhouse.  And the implication that the former trumped the latter in terms of my career is troubling.  Turns out I’m really good at my job, and I love it.

    It was easy for me to call out a Startup Weekend presentation that described stay-at-home moms as not working, marginalized stay-at-home dads, and suggested perpetuating wage discrimination.  It was easy for me to call out the impropriety of 200 re-tweets of a photoshopped photo of me at a conference 20 minutes ahead of my scheduled talk.  I certainly wish I didn’t have to, but I will continue to do so.

    And I’m glad Dan felt compelled to bring this latest of many examples to the surface, because this is not my issue, it’s not a women’s issue, it’s a social issue.

    Avatar
    Anonymous

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  44. I think we need to stop “women” entrepreneur programs and “women” this and that. In business, everyone is the same. All these special programs do is reinforce that there is a difference. Like women need a handicap. Fact is talented women don’t need any handicap and can compete at the same levels as men. 

    I know that may fly in the face of many pro-women organizations. But this is 2011. These organizations are holding you back.

    techman31 Avatar
    techman31

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  45. I think we need to stop “women” entrepreneur programs and “women” this and that. In business, everyone is the same. All these special programs do is reinforce that there is a difference. Like women need a handicap. Fact is talented women don’t need any handicap and can compete at the same levels as men. 

    I know that may fly in the face of many pro-women organizations. But this is 2011. These organizations are holding you back.

    techman31 Avatar
    techman31

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  46. Okay, let’s go with that analogy. It’s not that getting hit by a car wouldn’t hurt. But if you intend to hit me with your car, I could have a case against you for attempted murder. If it was just accidental, no charges would be pressed. So please, don’t underrate the importance of intention. People say stupid things. Period. This was a brainless moment, but it wasn’t attempted murder.

    The mere act of pointing out a behavior does not equate to the change of that behavior. Taking the right approach to instigate change in the way someone thinks or behaves is a deep issue. There is no evidence that this kind of public shaming will produce any positive change at all. I could just as easily make the assertion that this post and its comments are just as likely to produce the opposite result you speak of. Further, what makes you think that anyone who’s actually sexist would even read the post, let alone learn something from it and decide to make a change in their attitude?

    Ralph Miller Avatar
    Ralph Miller

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  47. Yes +11, and thanks for calling them on it here.

    Strata Chalup Avatar
    Strata Chalup

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  48. First, charges could be pressed (reckless endangerment, at the very least) and I would be required to pay for your medical care, missed work and pain and suffering.  And you would certainly be allowed to complain!  You would also be entirely within your right to campaign people to slow down, or to ban texting while driving or whatever other factors contributed to me hitting you, so that other people are less likely to be hit in the future.  Just because something is accidental doesn’t mean we have to accept it.

    Second, from the comments it is clear that some people holding sexist beliefs have read this post, so it is reaching the intended audience.
    Third, not doing anything is a guaranteed to leave things the same.  If we look at booth babes, we have seen people change their minds after having other people share the way the presence of booth babes affects them.  Consciousness-raising has worked in the past, both in changing sexist behavior and in other areas of equality and justice.

    At the very least, public shaming provides a disincentive to behaving in these ways.  Behavioral science says incentives matter, and my Economics degree suggests the best way to change society-wide behavior is to incentivize the desired behavior and penalize the non-desired behavior.  Consequences are central to establishing inclusive, respectful social norms.

    Avatar
    Anonymous

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  49. Yes, but I wouldn’t be charged with attempted murder. It’s obvious to me you’re way out of control. I never recommended doing nothing, so if you’re just going to continue ranting and not responding to my ACTUAL statements, then I’m done with this conversation.

    Ralph Miller Avatar
    Ralph Miller

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  50. harquail, just wanted to say that this is a really nice response. bringing up the fact that people feel vulnerable after speaking out is good for everyone to remember.

    hopefully someday we’ll be respectful of each individual and get all the language right, but it’s also our responsibility to *try* to understand intent.

    Guest Avatar
    Guest

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